From: Shalom.Bresticker@motorola.com
Date: Thu May 09 2002 - 09:48:31 PDT
Precedence: bulk
I have not checked, but since the IEEE is pretty conservative, and it seems to
be important to them that all their standards have the same format, I would
guess that as a matter of policy, they don't distribute neither colored versions
nor hyper-linked versions. They don't even have indexes!
Shalom
On Thu, 9 May 2002, Jayaram Bhasker wrote:
> Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 11:54:32 -0400
> From: Jayaram Bhasker <jbhasker@cadence.com>
> To: Clifford E. Cummings <cliffc@sunburst-design.com>, btf@boyd.com
> Subject: RE: Bug in file_path_spec: libraries
>
> Precedence: bulk
>
> Cliff:
>
> >> I just wish the IEEE had put the red-hyperlinked version of the BNF in the
> >> PDF release of the Verilog-2001 Standard. I think that would have been
> >> exceptionally useful to end-users. One of these days, the IEEE is going to
> >> enter the 21st century (in about 100 years ;-)
>
> Was the PDF submitted to IEEE the red-hyperlinked version? If so, was it rejected?
>
> I can bring this issue up at the next Design Automation Steering Committee
> meeting and see if we can influence IEEE.
>
> - bhasker
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clifford E. Cummings [mailto:cliffc@sunburst-design.com]
> Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 6:43 PM
> To: btf@boyd.com
> Subject: Re: Bug in file_path_spec: libraries
>
>
> Precedence: bulk
>
> At 03:29 PM 5/3/02 -0600, Dennis wrote:
> >Precedence: bulk
> >
> >Adam Krolnik wrote:
> > >
> > > Precedence: bulk
> > >
> > > Hello Jayaram;
> > >
> > > The specifications do not include double quotes to specify
> > > filenames. Since the library mapping file deals with mostly
> > > filenames, we saw no need to require quoted filenames.
> > >
> > > Example 13.7.3 incorrectly specifies quotes when should not
> > > be specified.
>
> True. We voted to remove the "" as unnecessary. This is a typo. The smart
> quotes are especially annoying in this example.
>
> >Yet, the include_statement production shown in the
> >Syntax 13-2 box on page 201 requires an include file
> >name be delimited with <>!
>
> This is a typo. No <> required (or valid).
>
> >Anyway, wouldn't some sort of delimiter be necessary for
> >certain kinds of filenames in library statements?
> >
> >The syntax for the library statement specifies using ',' to
> >separate file paths.
> >
> >But, ',' is a valid character that can be used in a filename.
> >So, consider:
> >
> > library mylib foo.v,bar.v
> >
> >Does the above map 2 files, or 1 file to mylib?
>
> This should be two files. We did not think about "," being a legal
> character in a file path name.
>
> >Also, blanks can be used in filenames as well. Without
> >using a wildcard, wouldn't one need some sort of delimiter
> >in order to specify a file containing blanks?
> >
> > library mylib < foo.v>
>
> We did not consider filenames with blanks.
>
> >If not required, perhaps <> delimiters should be an option in
> >library file path specifications?
>
> We can bring this up when the VSG reconvenes but I would vote against it.
> Perhaps we need to make "" optional, but required for the odd-named file
> formats (any file with blanks, commas, what else?)
>
> >Dennis Marsa
> >Xilinx, Inc.
>
> Side note. Section 13 is new to Verilog-2001. We did our best to eliminate
> bugs but obviously were unsuccessful. Had this section been perfect on the
> first publication, there would have been no living with us (the BTF) ;-)
>
> For all of its bugs, the IEEE Verilog Standards have come a long way.
>
> Take a peak at an early Verilog book such as a first-edition Thomas-Moorby
> book. Look at the BNF (appendix F). That is basically where we started with
> the Verilog-1995 Standard.
>
> Thomas-Moorby F.3 PRIMITIVE INSTANCES
>
> <gate_instantiation>
> ::= < GATETYPE> <drive_strength>? <delay>? <gate_instance>
> <,<gate_instance>>* ;
>
> <GATETYPE> is one of the following keywords (all gate and switch types
> keywords listed)
> ...
> <gate_instance>
> ::= <name_of_gate_instance>? ( <terminal> <,<terminal>>* )
>
> This syntax permitted and-gates with a turn-off delay, tran switches with a
> variable number of ports, switch primitives with drive strengths and a host
> of other illegal gate primitive instantiations.
>
> For the Verilog-1995 Standard, I put together hundreds of gate
> instantiations and used Verilog-XL to figure out what the gate and switch
> BNF should really be.
>
> The Verilog-1995 BNF was light years ahead of all previous Verilog BNF
> descriptions, but it was still buggy.
>
> For the Verilog-2001 Standard, I took over the BNF and turned all of the
> keywords and tokens into red-bold text. I also created a web version of the
> BNF and I think it was Adam who created a Perl script to link the BNF
> productions together. Between red-bold keywords and hyperlinked text, we
> discovered and corrected a whole host of additional problems with the BNF.
> I just wish the IEEE had put the red-hyperlinked version of the BNF in the
> PDF release of the Verilog-2001 Standard. I think that would have been
> exceptionally useful to end-users. One of these days, the IEEE is going to
> enter the 21st century (in about 100 years ;-)
>
> With each new Verilog Standard we will continue to refine and fix the BNF,
> and with each new Verilog Standard that includes enhancements, we will most
> likely introduce more BNF bugs. We could quit enhancing the Verilog
> language but then people would think it is VHDL ;-) ;-) ;-)
>
> We appreciate all of the reported BNF bugs and hope to fix them all. Point
> is, it could be worse! (Believe me, it was!!)
>
> Regards - Cliff
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Cliff Cummings - Sunburst Design, Inc.
> 14314 SW Allen Blvd., PMB 501, Beaverton, OR 97005
> Phone: 503-641-8446 / FAX: 503-641-8486
> cliffc@sunburst-design.com / www.sunburst-design.com
> Expert Verilog, Synthesis and Verification Training
>
-- Shalom Bresticker Shalom.Bresticker@motorola.com Design & Reuse Methodology Tel: +972 9 9522268 Motorola Semiconductor Israel, Ltd. Fax: +972 9 9522890 POB 2208, Herzlia 46120, ISRAEL Cell: +972 50 441478
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