RE: [sv-cc] P1364 meeting minutes and email ballot

From: Stuart Sutherland (stuart@sutherland-hdl.com)
Date: Tue May 03 2005 - 23:15:50 PDT

  • Next message: Clifford E. Cummings: "RE: [sv-cc] P1364 meeting minutes and email ballot"

    I appreciate Cliff's comments on my proposal for #687. It is good to know
    that someone actually read it. However, I disagree with many of Cliff's
    comments.

    ------------------------------------
    Cliff wants to change:

     "The 'begin_keywords and 'end_keywords directives can only be specified
    outside of a module or
    primitive."

    to

    "The 'begin_keywords and 'end_keywords directives can only be specified
    outside of a design
    element (module, macromodule, primitive or configuration)."

    First, throughout the 1364 (and 1800) LRM, where module is mentioned, the
    keyword macromodule is inferred as also being mentioned. There is no need
    to make an exception in this one place and mention both keywords. Second,
    Cliff is adding configurations as a "design unit". I do not believe either
    the 1364-2001 or the P1364-2005 ballot draft say that configurations are
    design units. That is why configurations were not listed in the already
    approved version of these directives in the P1800 ballot draft. If
    configurations are design units, then I agree they should be listed here.
    If it is the unapproved Mantis #680 proposal that makes configurations
    design units, then it is the responsibility of that proposal should revise
    this proposal. It would be inappropriate to make the change here based on
    the assumption that #680 will pass. If it should not pass, that would make
    this proposal incorrect.

    ------------------------------------
    Cliff wants to change:

    P1365-1995 to 1364-1995
    P1365-2001 to 1364-2001
    P1365-2005 to 1364-2005
    P1800-2005 to 1800-2005

    I agree that P1364-1995 and P1364-2001 should be changed. Those are true
    typos in the current draft of the proposal. However, the IEEE reviewers of
    the P1800 draft prior to the ballot draft explicitly stated that all
    references to the proposed 1364-2005 and 1800-2005 needed to be preceded by
    "P" before we could go to ballot. Supposedly, the IEEE editors (not the
    working group editors) do a search for "P1364" and "P1800" after the voting
    is completed and approved, and replace them with "1364" and "1800". This is
    the same time the IEEE adds their copyright info, ISBN numbers, and such. I
    will confess, though, that I worry about the IEEE editors getting the
    version name changes in this clause correct. I am more than willing to
    remove the "P" "P1364-2005" and "P1800-2005" in this proposal, and hope that
    it is not red-flagged by the IEEE in the recirculation ballot.

    ------------------------------------
    Cliff wants to change the keywords
    cell
    config
    endconfig

    To:
    cellname
    configuration
    endconfiguration

    These keywords changes are based on the as-yet-unapproved proposal for
    Mantis #680. I stated in my e-mail announcing this proposal that any
    keyword changes specified in #680 would need to include necessary
    modification to this proposal, P1364 Annex B, and P1800 Annex B (and P1800
    26-4, if this proposal is not approved). I do not believe it is appropriate
    to modify the keywords this proposal from what is currently in 1364-2001. I
    think #680 needs to modify all places affected by any keyword changes caused
    by #680, including any changes to the new clauses created by this proposal.

    ------------------------------------
    Cliff wants to change
    "SystemVerilog extends the 'begin_keywords and 'end_keywords defined in the
    P1364-2005 standard..."

    To:

    "SystemVerilog extends the 'begin_keywords and 'end_keywords defined in the
    1800-2005 Standard..."

    I disagree with this change. This proposal moves the definition of the
    directives from P1800 to P1364. This means that SystemVerilog IS extending
    the P1364 definition of these directives. SystemVerilog IS NOT extending
    it's own definition of the directives.

    ------------------------------------
    Cliff has a comment/question:

    "The ballot copy of the P1800-2005 had the following paragraph, which has
    apparently been removed.

    "The 'begin_keywords and 'end_keywords directives can only be specified
    outside of a module, primitive,
    interface, program or package. The 'begin_keywords directive affects all
    modules, primitives, interfaces,
    programs or packages that follow the directive, even across source code file
    boundaries, until the matching
    'end_keywords directive is encountered.

    "The P1364-2005 ballot draft specifies the legal design elements. Are we not
    going to list legal
    SystemVerilog design elements (including configurations) in the P1800-2005
    standard?"

    The proposal is to move the definition of these directives from P1800 to
    P1364. It is not possible to list the SV design units of interface, program
    and package in the P1364 standard, which is why they were removed from the
    proposal. I have no objection modifying the proposal for the new text in
    the P1800 standard to say that the directives include these SV design units.

    -------------------------------------

    Stu
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Stuart Sutherland
    stuart@sutherland-hdl.com
    +1-503-692-0898
      

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: owner-btf@boyd.com [mailto:owner-btf@boyd.com] On
    > Behalf Of Clifford E. Cummings
    > Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 5:00 PM
    > To: btf@boyd.com; etf@boyd.com; sv-champions@eda.org; sv-cc@eda.org
    > Subject: Re: [sv-cc] P1364 meeting minutes and email ballot
    >
    > Email Vote from Cliff Cummings
    >
    > At 02:53 PM 5/3/2005, Fitzpatrick, Tom wrote:
    > >Hi Gang,
    > >
    > >I've attached the minutes from Monday's (5/2) 1364 meeting, and also
    > >last week's (4/27).
    > >Also, at Monday's meeting, we decided to take an email vote on the
    > >following motions:
    > >
    > >687 - proposal on Mantis
    > >This is the compatability pragma proposal from Stu.
    > >Approve:________
    > >Disapprove:__X_____
    > >Abstain:________
    >
    > Numerous typos and mistakes. Proposed corrections attached
    > that will change my vote to "Approve"
    >
    > > 658 - Shalom suggested some amendments to the proposal. Updated
    > >proposal to be posted by Wednesday, 5/4.
    > >Approve:_______
    > >Disapprove:____X____
    > >Abstain:________
    >
    > I have also attached some corrections and proposed changes
    > that will change my vote to "Approve"
    >
    > >Because of the amendment to 658, email voting deadline is end-of-day
    > >Thursday, 5/5. Results to be announced at teleconference on 5/6.
    > >
    > >Next 1364 meeting:
    > > Friday, 5/6
    > > Noon EDT (9am PDT)
    > > Dial-in: 888-742-8686
    > > Int'l: 303-928-2600
    > > Passcode: 8179393
    > >Thanks,
    > >-Fitz
    > >
    > >Tom Fitzpatrick
    > >Verification Technologist
    > >Mentor Graphics Corporation
    > ><mailto:tfitz@model.com>tfitz@model.com
    > >W: (978)448-8797
    > >C: (978)337-7641
    >
    > ----------------------------------------------------
    > Cliff Cummings - Sunburst Design, Inc.
    > 14314 SW Allen Blvd., PMB 501, Beaverton, OR 97005
    > Phone: 503-641-8446 / FAX: 503-641-8486
    > cliffc@sunburst-design.com / www.sunburst-design.com Expert
    > Verilog, SystemVerilog, Synthesis and Verification Training
    >

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